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Refugium/Scrubber concept

Discussion in 'Experimental Scrubber Concepts' started by Rumpy Pumpy, Jul 3, 2013.

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  1. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    As said on Garfs Badass thread I am trying to create a larger area of 3D algae growth.

    The first attempt (which can be seen here ) wasn't very successful. There was a little 3D growth but not anything like as much as required (left it for 9 or 10 days)

    So this is the version 2 (video quality not good, but you can see what it is)



    I nicked Garfs cable ties idea and relocated the powerheads to one end of the screen. The overflow from the DT now discharges around the powerheads so that they suck in some of the air mix and blow it out across the screen as microbubbles.

    2 x 15w CFLs replaced with 2 x 15w LED grow bulbs.

    No idea if this will work but here's hoping.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2013
  2. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Wow. That's a lot of cable ties :) we need to find an easy way of roughing these babies up!
     
  3. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    Yes, I tried sandpapering a couple but it didn't seem to touch em so didn't bother.

    Thinking of dipping em in silicon and then sand or maybe shoving some roughed up airline tubing over the top of em
     
  4. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Ahh - just looked at the first vid. It seems (after a hell of a lot of googling) flow rates of 1 to 5 cm per second are good for high nutrient systems (most tanks), rates of upto 22 cm per second are beneficial for low nutrient systems, and rates in excess of 35 cm per second are problematic/disastrous for most algae types. Perhaps that's why your "MEGA FLOW" system is struggling.
     
  5. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    It was a bit quick, although probably not as fast as a waterfall scrubber.

    This version is slower as the powerheads are blowing along the length of the screen, instead of the width, and there is the cable tie forest to provide some resistance.
     
  6. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Yep, I'm thinking that when waterfalls are started, use as low flow as possible to keep it wet, then ramp it up to the max. Probably applies to horizontals also.
     
  7. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    That is what I have been thinking as well on the low flow then ramp up idea, haven't really made that a hard recommendation. Hadn't considered the 'too much flow' limit yet but I had a feeling there was such a limit. Now to translate GPH/in...
     
  8. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    I'm betting that the screen "roughing up" process has more to do with this than would be immediately apparent. The rougher the screen, the more drag, the slower the water moves past the screen (an increase in relative boundary layer), more settlement of algae, bla bla bla.
     
  9. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK

    Sounds about right.

    Also, I'm not sure that the roughing up process makes very much difference to the ultimate growth potential of a surface (it will grow on glass for instance, given enough time) but having a rough surface will allow it to get a hold quicker in high flow.

    That said, some plastics may be smoother than glass at a microscopic level I guess.
     
  10. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    Update, one week in from my revision and this thing has grown.... absolutely bugger all.

    There are a few very small discoloured patches on some of the cable ties but I suspect that these are just captured debris rather than algae growing.

    Possibly the concept is completely useless but I'm a little suspicious of these Chinese LED growbulbs (which, to be fair, could be positioned a little closer to the water surface)

    I'll leave it for another week and see what happens.
     
  11. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    I would still turn the flow down, and give it a few more weeks.
     
  12. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK

    Cheers. Might be a plan. I'll turn the pumps off and let it carry on with just the flow from the DT
     
  13. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    Another week with not much to show for it.

    A little 3D growth on the bottom but not enough to do any significant filtering

    Still bugger all on the cable ties

    Will carry on but not very hopeful for this idea
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  14. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  15. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK

    lol, are you stalking him now? :rolleyes:


    Yes I turned the powerheads off a week ago. There are still some bubbles from the inlet on one small area of it but there is hardly any growth in that part. The best growth, for what it is, seems to be in an area with no bubbles and low flow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  16. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Do a test for me :)

    Pull a bit of algae off the bottom and squeeze it onto a couple of ties near the front of the tank. You'll probably see the algae float away, but I noticed my ties started to grow initially where a few strands of loose filaments got caught around them. You haven't roughed your ties up in away way though, have you? If not try doing that on a few ties also ;)
     
  17. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK

    I sandpapered a couple of them but it didn't seem to make any difference (they are very hard plastic) and I've no idea which ones.

    But I'll fish it out later and try what you say above.

    Also, as I mentioned before, I had an idea of cutting some lengths of air hose and pushing them over the ties, having first roughed them up in some way (air hose is much softer plastic so will be easier to rough). So I'll do a few of those too while I'm at it.


    I should also move the lights closer, need to incorporate some sort of splash guard first though.
     
  18. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK
    Revision 2

    Took the thing out & it looked like this

    [​IMG]

    No point having the ties above the water line so gave it a haircut

    [​IMG]

    Roughed up a few of the ties and rubbed some green on em like so

    [​IMG]

    Added some roughed up airline to some others and rubbed in green also

    [​IMG]

    Built a floating splash guard and lowered the lights

    [​IMG]

    Also moved the whole thing 6 or 8 inches away from the pumps and turned em back on (no bubbles this time though)

    And now it looks like this

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  19. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Don't hang about, do ya !

    I can now see that your using the LEDs with lots of tiny low power diodes. Probably your best next improvement would to get high power ones. If the algae takes on the ties it will shade anything else below. Cfl's may be a better option than the ones your using at the minute.
     
  20. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    137
    2
    UK

    Yes, they don't look too bright either, supposed to be 15w each but I have my doubts.

    I'll leave it a week and see how it looks.
     

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