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Akando's In wall design thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by akando, Mar 22, 2014.

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  1. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    Hello all!
    I've been into aquariums since I was little but only into reef tanks since 2009. My father is also in to reef tanks. It all started with me bringing home a 72 Gallon bow front which I had planned to build slow. Flash forward a year, found another good deal on a complete 120 gallon and brought it back with me from Florida. In 2012, we moved into a new house with an insulated garage and way too much space. I currently have an 8x2'x12" frag tank that has the remnants of my friends tank that survived his tank cracking. I also have a 180g that is tied into my 125g in the garage. The 72 Gallon is in the game room currently.

    My father and I have always wanted a Large tank say at least 10', we have located the "perfect" space to do an in-wall build, but only 8' long.

    Hopefully, I can bounce my design ideas off of you guys so this tank will be successful for many years to come.
    The tank will be centered on the wall with 16" space on each side of the tank, but not the same space in the room behind. I plan to do an 8'L x 3'D x 29" H tank with starphire front, with a sump under the display, and a Coral grow-out tank in the fish room.
    Here is a picture of where I plan for the tank to be on the wall.
    [​IMG]
    This is a crude sketch of the layout and measurements of the room behind the tank.
    [​IMG]
    And a sketch of the tank
    [​IMG]

    I haven't figured out the overflow(s) yet, was originally planning on going with 3 individual overflows but I would really like to go with a Coast to Coast style overflow, with a Bean Animal drain system.

    I have an idea of what I want the sump layout to be, and will be doing a sketch tomorrow.

    I had planned on placing (2) 200 gallon tanks in the room for RO and Saltwater storage/mixing but It really limits the space in the room.

    My garage is roughly 23 feet away from the tank; and If I could, I would like to have the 2oo gallon tanks in the garage, plumbed into the room. Not sure if this would be feasible, but I already have a nice counter area with storage and a sink.

    There is no sink in the fish room, no water hookup, and no drain, I could possibly place a pipe that could be routed to the exterior and be a sort of grey water drain. I am also on a septic system which limits my disposal capabilities.

    That's all I feel like writing at this time, thank you for reading!
     
  2. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Nice bird in the first pic :p

    23 feet is a looooong run for a tuned siphon drain. You'll have lots of problems with that, mainly with the air purging out of the line, and the fail-safes might take a while also. It would probably still work, but would take some input from Bean or UncleOf6 on RC I would say, and lots of planning.
     
  3. Ace25

    Ace25 Member Trusted Member

    Floyd, it looks like there will be a sump under the tank, so I don't think there needs to be a 23' drain for that purpose. The only thing I see that needs to be 23' is to empty the water for water changes and pumping water back into the tank. One could use a strong return pump (on that size tank it will need one) / T valve to push water out to drain, or use a second pump/long hose in the sump, but you will need a strong pump to push water from the mixing station back to the tank as I doubt you are going to want to haul 20 5G buckets of water to refill the tank during water changes. The Reeflo Blowhole pump is great for that purpose as it can push water a long distance, and could be used for both draining and refilling the tank.

    http://reefbuilders.com/2011/10/06/reeflo-blowhole-pump/
     
  4. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    Haha, that is my friend Mike, I didnt even notice he was flipping me the bird!
    You are correct, Ace. I would only need to Pump water 23' from the garage to the tank during water changes. I would probably located the RO/DI unit in the garage near the mixing tanks but I am thinking that I will need a RO container in the fishroom for top off water.
     
  5. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I never thought about a septic system and saltwater. I'm guessing you can't really flush a couple dozen gallons of SW down to the septic tank without affecting the bacteria and saturating your ground with salt = dead grass.

    There has to be a thread on that somewhere.
     
  6. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

  7. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    Really the only thing that I do rinse out is my algae screens and dump my skimmer cups into the drain, rest of my water change water (which hasn't been much since Ive been neglecting my tanks) goes out to the 30'x45' area on the side of my house that is covered in rock. That is also where I could plan to pipe the drain from the fish room to...
     
  8. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    problem solved! From reading that link it sounds like it won't actually kill your grass anyways. Just gardens & plants you have to watch for.
     
  9. Kerry

    Kerry Member Trusted Member Customer

    Have ever tried to reach into a 29 inch deep tank to get a toppled over rock or coral???? I have a 24 inch tall 150G and can just reach the area in the front. I do not think I will ever have a tank deeper then 24 inches due to this issue. Just something to think about but, I do love to see OTHER PEOPLES deep tanks LOL.
     
  10. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    Thanks for the advice Kerry, I am still up in the air about the final depth of the tank and also unsure if I want to go with a DSB or Bare Bottom...

    Here's a crude sketch of a sump layout, 1st chamber will be a turbulence chamber which will overflow into chamber 2, where the (6) filtersocks will be set in a frame for easy removal, water will normally flow out the bottom of this chamber into the reactor chamber, #3. I will also probably place the ATS pump in this chamber. Chamber 4 I may use for a return or possibly connect it to another larger sump to increase my water volume. I have not decided on final sizes of sumps or how I will tie in the grow out tanks to this system. I am up for ideas!
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Without seeing the sketch, I might have a few suggestions. With 6 filter socks I'm guessing you're using the 4" round x 14" long standard sock. Go for 7" round instead. Waaaay easier to clean and manage. Or if you have those in already, forget I said anything.

    Regarding water volume, I had come up with an interesting solution for one guy who wanted to be able to perform a 100g PWC (on an 800g tank) without shutting his return pump off. What I did was I designed his sump for just the normal size (operating volume + power-off draw down + accidental top off = sump minimum capacity) and then I had a 100g (or 150g) stock tank next to it. A line was plumbed via bulkhead from the bottom of the stock tank and routed up to the side of the sump into a bulkhead that would be above the maximum power-off water level in the sump. Then, a pump was placed in the sump to push water into the stock tank. The return line had a tap off of it to drain it.

    So the idea was that you are constantly circulating water to the stock tank with the feed pump. When it's time to do a PWC, you shut off the feed pump, drain the stock tank, fill it back up (even use it as a mixing tank) and when it's ready you fire up the feed pump again and off you go, 100g PWC with no shutdown, and the fresh SW gets slowly blended into the system.

    Shipping the sump broke the back of the deal because it was a huge sump. But I still like the idea. Originally he wanted a sump with a built-in 100g overcapacity for doing the PWC in the sump without shutting it off. Talk about expensive, needing a 150g sump and pushing it to 250 just for that when a stock tank is like $100 at Fleet Farm.
     
  12. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    That's a good idea! I'll have to measure one to see if I can fit it in the room. I could also possibly go with a vertical tank.
    Here's a question for ya, what happens when the power shuts off and the 100g tank starts to drain into the sump?
    I just re-read your post and saw that the line would be plumbed UP from the bottom of the tank so I guess once the sump level equalizes with the stock tank, water flow ceases.
     
  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    The top water level in the sump would be be determined by the level of the pipe as it drains into the sump. So if the stock tank were elevated and then the drain pipe went up and over the rim of the sump, you could never backflow from sump to stock tank. If the bulkhead came in up high on the sump, you would need to make sure you had excess height to avoid backflowing to the sump, for sure.
     
  14. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    [​IMG]

    Here's a sketch I drew, If I put the 100g tank on the same plane, I could just drill a bulkhead into the sump correct?
    I want the sump raised so I can easily drain each chamber. That's what the small circles are, bulkheads. How would you guys pipe in the stock tank?
     
  15. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Well, why would you need to drain each chamber? I never really have had to do that in any of my sumps. I suppose though if you wanted to stir up all the detritus then drain, that would come in handy.

    Only need 1 drain in the center section, not 3 ;)

    I would put a pump under the filter socks and pipe over to the stock tank.

    From the stock tank, bulkhead on bottom side or end (depends on the tank style, some have a dedicated flat space for drilling) and then pipe up to side of drain chamber in sump via bulkhead. Depending on what you had in the stock tank (if it was say a frag tank or rock/fish fuge) you might want a secondary path in case the primary drain got clogged/plugged. So another bulkhead up high piped with a slight downward angle to the sump drain section
     
  16. akando

    akando New Member Customer

    That was my intent with the bulkheads in the side, got kinda carried away with them heh. I'm still a little fuzzy on the stock tank idea, I'm worried about overflowing the sump with what's in the stock tank.
    On a side note, look what I saw online today!
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    This is the drawing I made for the other system I had planned

    [​IMG]

    So as you can see, there is no way the stock tank could empty out below the level at which the bulkhead meets the tank wall.
     
  18. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    That sump looks awesome, but it does nothing a 20g long with a few baffle's can't do.. and will save you about 350 pesos
     
  19. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    @Ricky I don't think I would want a 20g sump on a 400+ g tank though!!
     
  20. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    Ok 55g tank. My bad
     

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