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ATS's have a big hurdle to over come?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by atoll, May 29, 2017.

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  1. atoll

    atoll Member

    I seeded m Alais 2 with Ulva intestinalis and what a difference that makes. The only other stuff I add to aid growth is O3 and PO4 ;)
    However, I have just started adding a little Iron also.
  2. Bulk Reef Supply just posted that they are selling Clear Water Algae Scrubbers. They kinds look like something I was trying to build in my garage. After months of trying to build a scrubber that would work properly. I bought my L2, best decision ever. Thanks Bud. You have the best Scrubber on the market.

    Turbo likes this.
  3. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I can't find it on BRS' site, . On their website (clearwater), I SMH. That's yet another website that just literally copy/pasted Santa Monica's "what is a scrubber" writeup. Word for word in some places. Example:

    verbatim....that just gets me every time I see it.

    Also, that's a variation of the 302 Aquatics scrubber, so nothing ground breaking design-wise. At least he uses a slot pipe, but he uses white PVC with is translucent, meaning it can grow algae inside the pipe. I switched to gray electrical PVC after about a week of using that pipe in my Rev 1 and then sent out replacement pipes to everyone, then switched to Schedule 80 when the slot started pinching.

    The union he uses is huge and very likely has a restrictive throat on it, if it's the one I'm thinking of (one from a big box store) the flange on one side narrows the ID needlessly and cut the flow rate down, meaning you need a bigger pump to do the same job. I searched and found one manufacturer that does not add a needless flange on the inside.

    Looks like he uses red/blue lights instead of WW like 302 does. Otherwise they're pretty much the same light. Although, they can't be LightingEver fixtures because they don't make red/blue. The LE fixtures are among the better LED floodlight fixtures, which isn't saying much because all of those type of fixtures are pretty much junk. I can't count how many people have told me that they get shocked by those eventually due to salt creep or poor grounding inside the fixture, cheap power supplies, etc (that encompasses all brands of that style of fixture, not only LE)

    I could build that type of scrubber all day long and wholesale it to BRS if I wanted to. If you know how to work with acrylic, it's ridiculously easy to make a box like the 302 or clearwater design. When I made my Rev 1, one of the biggest things I wanted to do was block light. I thought this was a critical design feature, so I added a top flange and made it out of black acrylic. This adds a level of complexity to the design, to the point that even with CNC parts, I was having to sand after assembling the sides and windows so that I could add on the base and tops.

    This light-blocking design requirement doesn't seem to be on the radar of the guys who make this type of design. 302 makes something that you slide over the end/fixtures to block the light, but it's huge (it has to be).

    All I gotta say is, wait until my website is revamped...it's going to put any competitor's site to shame. The main reason it's taking me so long is that I have a extraordinarily huge amount of advice that I have disseminated over the course of the last 7 years, both over email on on various forums, and I wish to compile all of that into a huge FAQ & best practices section that covers both use of my units (all 4 revisions) as well as DIY.

    Then, I'm working on a dynamic calculator that allows you to enter in all kinds of information about your system, then it spits out a recommendation on what size scrubber you need.

    On top of that, my designer absolutely nailed my new logo design right on the head on the first try, without any input from me whatsoever.
  4. BRS posted it on their Instagram account. I see so many problems with the clearwater and 302 scrubber. The biggest problem is the lighting, and is the main reason I didn't build my own. Those cheap *** Chinese grow lights are supposed to be water proof, but are not. I tested a few and in most cases they leaked right thru the acrylic lens. I did not want to get electrocuted or have my tank die off because my fish got shocked. I wouldn't trade my L2 for anything else on the market. Bud, I posted your website in the comments on the BRS Instagram post.

  5. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

  6. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I see that on their Twitter feed now. Looks like they've switched to Schedule 80 plumbing now, so that's good. Still can't tell what brand fixture they are using. I'm pretty sure that all those style fixtures are made by only a few manufacturers, and those are likely in China. But I think there are actually a few that are US based. Realistically though, all the parts are probably still made in China, what it comes down to is the quality of those parts and how they are assembled. The power supplies are super cheap, as are the LED multi-chips.

    My power supply alone costs almost as much as one of those 20W LED multi-chip floodlights.

    Next, look at the LEDs. one Luxeon Deep Red on a star is $2.25 retail Luxeon Deep Red. mulitply that by 6 per fixture and your raw LED parts cost is nearly the same as the entire multichip fixture.

    One might say "wow that must be a great value" whereas the other might say "I wonder what corner they are cutting to make that so cheap".

    You can't get tight bin selection and name-brand quality and ultra-inexpensive at the same time. My parts on my driver board aren't cheap either, most of them are made by Samsung actually (or another big name like that, I can't recall right now). So far, unless people just haven't been reporting failures, my LED/driver boards have something on the order of a 99% success rate. In 5 years, I've exchanged maybe 3 or 4 fixtures, mainly the older ones.
  7. When I was trying to DIY my algae scrubber I took apart a few of the 20 watt flood grow lights. They are crap, and very dangerous. The power supplies looked like they were going to fall apart, and were supposed to be glued to the metal back plate to dissipate heat. The power supply glue didnt hold, and they were loose. They also use cheap tape at soldered connections. The tape glue didnt hold, so there were bare wire connections. The should have used wire shrink wrap or something better to protect the soldered wire connections. The LED light plates didnt have any thermal paste on the back, so the LED's were taking all the heat. My guess is they would have burnt out in less than a year. All I could think of is my house burning down, cheap Chinese crap.
  8. TbyZ

    TbyZ Member

    I've read through SM web info. Is there any info - claims, SM puts forward that you don't agree with Bud, in your experience ?
  9. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Offhand, I can't say that I disagree with any of the technical things he posts, but then again I haven't paid attention lately

    Some disagree with the conclusions he draws or infers, saying there's a bit of cherry-picking of data going on. So that's mostly why I avoid quoting technical data & studies, there are just so many of those and a debate could go on forever. It's my feeling that most studies aren't directly applicable, for one reason or another.

    What I do tend to disagree with is some of his advice. His is highly skewed towards the UAS concept, no surprise. Mine could be said to be skewed towards waterfall, no surprise either I suppose.
    TbyZ likes this.
  10. TbyZ

    TbyZ Member

    How about specifically the elements he say the algae add to the water - eg, aminos, vitamins, proteins?

    That's all pretty accurate I believe? Does the algae add these in useful amounts?
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Algae does add things to the water, how these interact with the tank inhabitants, not sure. I'm sure there are studies that discuss it, I recall reading a few. I believe that most of the studies that were done directly on tanks with algae scrubbers on them were by Dr Adey, so horizontal dump-bucket style, turf algae, etc, and 20 years ago.

    There's not much that I'm aware of that deals specifically with GHA on a waterfall or upflow scrubber
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  12. Tim

    Tim Member Trusted Member

    I am going to try Fe-EDDHA. this chelate should prevent iron from oxidising with the higher pH in our water. I am almost finished building my own scrubber and I will also dose other stuff myself.. as salinity will rise faster and some elements will remain in the watercolumn.

    Attached Files:

  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Can you expand a bit on Fe-EDDHA?
  14. atoll

    atoll Member

  15. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I was just going to ask if RHF had chimed in on that, and bam.
  16. atoll

    atoll Member

    It was me asking the question to him Bud however, I had read an article by him a few years back by him on iron in the reef tank and started adding iron a few weeks back
  17. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Yep I noticed that ;)
  18. Tim

    Tim Member Trusted Member

    Yes, chelated iron. EDDHA is stable around aquarium pH. I do not know anyone who tried HBED (even stronger).. however, EDDHA should keep Fe in the aquarium water long enough for corals to utilize (so i've heard). The person who used this has had positive experiences with this. Using Fe EDTA or with mononatriumcitraat will not work.. iron will oxidize quickly and function as liquid phosphate remover. I am going to try Fe-EDDHA myself (look for fertilizer aquaponics.. much cheaper than "reef" brands)

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