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baddiesel's new L2 install

Discussion in 'Customer Support' started by baddiesel, Jun 9, 2013.

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  1. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    There's also the fact that some (if not all) phosphate limited algae produce Alkaline phosphatase. This substance scavenges phosphate from organic molecules. The relationship tends to be inverse, the higher the inorganic phos content of the water, the less the Alkaline Phosphatase produced. This "AP" is also more effective at scavenging phos at higher pH.
     
  2. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I've heard about this before and set it on a shelf in my mind LOL...so, the growing algae on the scrubber is actually, in effect, causing the release of phosphate that is bound in the rocks?

    Some might see this as a discouragement for keeping a scrubber. But the truth is that if your rocks are becoming a phosphate sink, this can only happen for so long until things reach a tipping point. The fact that the algae and bacteria have phosphate to leech from the rocks is the problem that the scrubber addresses.

    So in essence, the algae growing on the rocks is an indicator of a hidden problem that you never knew you had, in the process of being solved. Is that a fair assessment?
     
  3. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    If one were to define "bryopsis" as a species encompassing "green hair algae" (GHA). Then, I guess the answer would be "affirmative", I'm battling "bryopsis". I am certain PO4 has leeched into my live rock. I forgot to mention, that I have been operating a phosban reactor using "sea-gel" by SeaChem.

    Yep, I've researched another method used to kill GHA/Bryopsis. By raising the Mg level to 1800 ppm, and maintain that level for 2 weeks (no w/c's), it's supposed to eradicate GHA. What's most important, is the use of Kent Marine Tech M. Apparently, there's another compound in the reagent that kills the GHA, not the Mg sulfide or Mg chloride. It's something else that does the damage.

    You're right Bud, I shouldn't have thoroughly cleaned the screen as well as I did. But, I can grow it out again within a month and have heavy turf algae growth...... and lots of critters in that stuff.
     
  4. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Bryopsis is a specific type of algae that is rather difficult to battle, and typically people have tried the Kent stuff but it doesn't always work. It might not be your problem. Post pics of your rock algae growth, close-ups if you can, and decent resolution also. Raising the Mg might not work. I can give you many instances where it does not.

    Getting your rock to bleed out all the phosphate will just take time. There are a lot of ongoing discussions about the phosphate depositing and leeching mechanisms right now. One concept is that your rock is essentially a sponge for phosphate among other things. This is essentially a hidden problem and it is possible that now that you are using several methods that remove P from the water, other mechanisms are busy accessing it from the rock, and this is resulting in algae growth at the source. So in a way this could be considered a good thing, as you are "cleaning up" your tank. Any efforts you make to deter the algae growth may actually prolong it. I can't say that is the case for sure, but the logical step is to promote removal of the phos from the rock so that this stage will pass. Again, these are just theories that are developing, but worth paying attention to.

    Before changing anything you are doing, post pics of your algae on rock growth.
     
  5. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Yes, that's a fair assessment. I was looking for another "quick fix-silver bullet", to rid my tank of GHA. While using all these methods at once, I can say with certainty that my tank looks cleaner. It takes longer for the brown film to build up on the glass. Cyrano has disappeared, without using "chemi-clean", it just disappeared. A lot of the brown diatoms on the sand bed have just disappeared, and it looks brighter and cleaner. I will update you later, currently I'm in DC.
     
  6. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Sounds good to me.
     
  7. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Alright, I'm back at my residence. Performed another Mg test, the level is 2010. Still, there's not any change in the appearance of the GHA. That is to say, it's still alive and thriving. Today, is day number 14. I'm thinking about doing a w/c tomorrow, as I haven't done one since the 24th of Aug; sorta' worry about the impact on everything. Corals are thriving, algae is again growing on my ATS, my protein skimmer cup/throat looks very nasty. Other than the glass needing a wipe or two, everything really looks really good. Turbo, sorry, I don't have any other way of sending pics right now.
     
  8. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Here are pics of his algae growth

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  9. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    It's a little hard to tell from the resolution of the pics, but I think I can see the 'braching' type of growth that is the tell-tale sign of bryopsis. Srusso had a big problem with this in his tank, tried all kinds of different things to try and get rid of it. When he tested for Phosphates it was pretty high, so he ran GFO to get it down, and then he started dosing Potassium because that was low as well.

    I'll ping him and see if he can chime in and help - he's out of reefkeeping for the moment so he's not online much
     
  10. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Thanks for posting the photos for me, I appreciate that. Negative on the "branching" type of hair algae. This is plain 'ole green hair algae, it's very fine in texture, single hairs, and "finer-than frog's hair" GHA. My NO3 is zero, and my PO4 is zero as well. The tank is the cleanest that I've ever seen it. I'm almost afraid to perform a 20-25g w/c.
     
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Ah, that is good to know. Because if it is not bryopsis, then this is a much simpler issue :cool:

    If you don't have high N and P, I would back off on the water changes. Maybe start doing 1/2 as much each time. I feel the jury is out on what is better, regular water changes or occasional water changes. I've seen info on both sides - regular PWCs can cause a buildup of certain element levels to concentrations that are magnitudes of order higher than NSW, others saying you need to replenish elements that we don't test for. I could see a valid case being made for occasional WCs but not large, frequent changes, unless this is needed for lowering nutrients.
     
  12. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Just a quick update: The Tech M did not work at all at reducing or eliminating GHA in my tank. My parameters are okay, (NO3=0, PO4=0, dKH=9, Ca=440ppm, SG=1.026, with the exception of my Mg still high (1800 ppm). I've changed my w/c routine to only 15g. I still use "SeaGel" by SeaChem for phosphate reduction and to keep the water clear, and I use ChemiKleen Elite, as well as Purigen. My chaetomorphia grows like a weed, and I have great harvests from the ATS, so I think I've beat the dead horse into the ground. I've removed all GHA inffected LR, and placed it into a 30g brute trash can, fresh salt water, heater, (2) power heads, and a tight fitting lid. I'll perform weekly water changes, and rinses for about 3 months, until I feel certain all phosphate has leached out of the LR. My corals and fish appear healthy, and the sand bed is amazingly clean. In fact, I've never seen it this clean before. That's all I have for now. Cheer's!!!
     
  13. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Here's another update, with a scientific twist. Per my previous post, on 10-5-13, I removed all GHA infected LR from my display tank, and relocated them into a 30g brute trash can, with fresh saltwater, heater & (2) 1600gph power heads. The heavy duty plastic lid fits snug, and properly latches on the barrel. This barrel is located in a garage, with lights off most of the time. I've rinsed this LR once since being placed in the "re-curing" phase of this project. I've got to report to you'all, that this GHA is from HELL. It doesn't need any light to survive. I just checked the rock last night, yep no sign of dying, diminished growth, yellowing, graying, nothing, na-da.....it's unbelievable!!!. I was under the impression that one of the most important key elements for algae growth was light. All I can say is, this strain of GHA is very tough, and my LR must be saturated with a lot of PO4. Currently, my display tank has only corals, a few snails, and no fish, and I still have a small amount of GHA growing out of some coraline algae that's on the return spouts. ATS is still operating great, chaetomorphia started to slow down a little on the growth rate, and my PO4 & NO3 is undetectable.
     
  14. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I would also find a way to plumb in a GFO reactor and pack it with either high capacity BRS GFO, or Phos-blast from Premium Aquatics.

    I know you've told me this, but where did you get that rock?
     
  15. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Well, that seems to provide evidence for the organic uptake survival strategy of at least some algaes. Excellent info, thanks :)
     
  16. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    I'm using a phosban reactor filled with Sea Gel on my display tank. Once my new Magnum 350 arrives, I will do the Lanthanum Chloride/Diatomaceous Earth drip method for phosphate removal from the 30g (LR) barrel.
     
  17. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I have a decades-old Magnum 330 and it's a rock star. Diaton cartridge is awesome. Don't need the DE though really, I used to use that on my FW tanks and used the DE, make cleaning easy, but in a SW tank you just stir everything up and let the cartridge cake up and it does the same thing. I always heard that you're supposed to drip LE into a 5 micron filter sock?
     
  18. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Some people drip Lanthanum Chloride (LC) integrated with a Vertex water polisher/Diatomaceous Earth (DE). I don't like the way they prime, so I'm going use a Magnum 350 & micron filter. The micron filter is only good to about 10 microns. Add 1 cup of DE to 2 1/2 qt pitcher of aquarium water. Prime empty Mag 350 with both suction & return lines in water pitcher/container. Now the DE will coat the micron filter and make it a 1 micron filter.
     
  19. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    That's exactly how I did it too. When I was a kid we had a pool with a big DE filter (3' tall 2' round) and I would dump in 10 coffee cans of that stuff into the pool skimmer after backflushing. I had an unlimited source for my tank! I had well water and when I did a PWC on my FW cichlid tank, 2 weeks later I would get a nasty algae outbreak unless I ran the canister w/DE for 6 hours after the PWC - then it stayed crystal clear.
     
  20. baddiesel

    baddiesel Member Customer

    Not to get off topic, but if you can locate Leslie's fiber cellulose from a pool supply store, it's cheaper, just as efficient, and a little less dangerous than DE. Now, back to my display tank issues......I really think everything is fine. My chaetomorphia and ATS growth has diminished quite a bit. I added 4ml of Fergon (Fe) 24 hours ago, and the chaeto did not "green-up". So now, I believe my tank is nutrient poor. No fish, no food, no PO4, and no NO3. The sand bed looks pristine.
     

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