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Lighting Chinese led

Discussion in 'General Aquarium Discussion' started by tebo, Jan 29, 2014.

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  1. Kerry

    Kerry Member Trusted Member Customer

    Oh no!!! I just got 100 450-ish nm blue ones and already have about 30+. Ok, So I just ordered 50 that are 412-420, got a good deal only 30 bux shipped.
    Thanks for the info!!
    I have one test section build with 36 LED's which 12 are blue 450-ish and it does seem to light that section up very well. I am leaning toward more blue this time like around 40% or more and was worried more blues would not look as bright as the 67% white/33% blue I run now. I do like the idea of less LED's due to less heat. I also am not planning on any optics either so you think 36 is still ok? The 67/33 test unit I build looks pretty bright and it does not have optics either
  2. tebo

    tebo Member

    Ace25 greetings, really it was the information I was looking for a chair of the LEDs

    Really thank you very much, now to continue learning when we talk about 420nm, I see two viable options rapidled your uv 410nm to 420nm and steveled of 417nm and 420nm where specified is 419nm, I think it would be the best option, or is there othere choice ace25??

    Really grateful

  3. Ace25

    Ace25 Member Trusted Member

    Kerry: Optics are a very important factor. 60 degree optics will give you 3x the output per LED, plus adds a lot of penetration power. So yes, that does make a difference on my recommendation on tanks over 12" deep (most tanks). Why don't you want to use optics? They are so much cheaper than the cost of extra LEDs/Drivers to accomplish the same goal. Bottom line, without optics, you are correct, 48-50 LEDs would be minimum per section, may even have to do 60 LEDs per section to achieve enough light at the sand bed. Besides the major benefit of optics, penetration, it also allows you to hang the light much higher above the tank so it is easier to work on without having the light in the way. My light on my 75G is 14" above the water, inside a canopy, my 28 LED light I have on my 60G is 18" above the water. Without optics, I would need double the LEDs on the 60G and I would have to mount the light no higher than 4" off the water, and I really don't like my lights that close to the water for several reasons. Working on the tank, worry of corrosion, constant cleaning the 'splash shield' because it will get very dirty on a daily basis, and that really cuts down on output.

    tebo: I would go with Steve's, they are better IMO. There is also LEDgroupbuy.com and ledsupply.com (no 420's) for LEDs, but I still think Steve's would be the best choice for 420nm.

    I am happy to help out when I can by sharing my knowledge I have gained over the past decade with LEDs over aquariums, but unfortunately in the last 6 months my interest in aquariums has dropped to an all time low (been doing aquariums for the past 26 years now) so I am not visiting many aquarium related sites anymore. I really started diving into another 'hobby' that, like Floyd has done with scrubbers, I hope to do in that hobby. I hope to sell custom LED lights that I have developed and tested for the past year. I have tweaked it many times since the original inception to get what I feel is the absolute most efficient light to date. I can't say 100% that I am the first to do that, but I feel 99% sure since I have never even heard of anyone going the direction I have gone (combining old school blue/red grow lights, with the NASA X5 white/red LED light, and going beyond what NASA developed by adding more spectrums of blues, reds, and cyan). I see a huge market for 'indoor LED grow lights', especially in the 'legal' states. Unlike most vendors, my lights will be proven to actually do what they say (every LED grow light on the market is extremely overpriced junk IMO). The 100 LED light I made cost about $500 total and is perfect for any 'closet grow', and only uses 215w of power, yet, it far exceeds the ability of a 1000w MH in the same space. The last 'upgrade' I made to the light I was able to achieve photosaturation in a plant while only using 215w of electricity (plant started bleaching!). I have never seen or heard of that before in the history of indoor growing using traditional lighting methods, and only a few reports of it happening with LEDs but even then it was when the plant grew into the LEDs, never at a distance like I achieved. There are 4 types of Red LEDs to cover 630nm-670nm, and 6 types of blue LEDs covering the entire 400nm range, along with half a dozen cyans (very important light for most plants, and usually missing in grow lights) and warm whites. Originally I had started with the standard Red/Blue light in a 6:1 ratio, but quickly learned plants need much more than that to really be healthy.

    This entire 'experiment', which is done completely within the laws of the state of California, only uses 300w total for everything you see. Every chamber has LED lights (left to right, clones, flowering, pre-flowering, and mother plants on the bottom right). We (person who own's it, I am just the builder/mad scientist) calculated it cost $20 a month in electricity, $40 per grow cycle, and he is able to get $1000 worth of 'medicine' every 60 days.


  4. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Yeah we have a hydroponics shop in town - straight up for the organic foods crowd - but he had a red/blue grow light on a plant and thought it was junk because the plant was wilting under it. Even the guys in the industry have no clue what to do when it comes to true growth spectrum LED lights, they are just lost.

    The battle is being fought here in Iowa for legalization of medical cannabis but it's gonna be a long road as I see it. Over 80% of Iowans polled are in favor of medical cannabis. We had a family here that had to move to Colorado to get cannabis oil to treat their daughter for seizures (200+ daily) and after similar individuals have received that medicine, they've dropped to less than 5% of that rate. It's criminal that it is illegal, and if you really dig into the reason, it goes straight to the top.

    But...that's a topic for a whole other forum. Let's just say that if and when it does go legal here, I'll be calling you Ace...
  5. Ace25

    Ace25 Member Trusted Member

    Turbo likes this.
  6. Kerry

    Kerry Member Trusted Member Customer

    Ace, I am looking for a slim line look on top of the tank as well as good coverage. I will be using six 6x10 heat sinks. They are the 6x20 ones offered form rapidled (not drilled) just cut in half. I will be setting them on the glass that I had cut. I will be placing the the 6" side pointing to the front and back with a space of about 2-3 inches between them. I am hoping this will give me very good coverage. I am using 8 cavity male to female electrical connectors for each of the three sections so I have plenty of connections for the drivers and fans and I can easily remove them if needed by a quick pull apart connection. I will have a 2" opening on the back so I have plenty of room to feed and dose plus the front 3" of glass is removable like the plastic flip up hoods. I will be using two 3M sided tape to fasten little knobs to remove this front piece with.
    The 36 LED test build I have is very tight with the LED pattern.
    The other will be spaced more apart like this one I built for the 40G breeder but with an extra row.
    I figure the tight pattern of the test unit is giving be good penetration to the sand bed but with the wider 6" heat sink I will loose a LOT of it. Any thoughts are welcome as I will be waiting about 2 weeks for the 417-420nm blues to come from china.
  7. tebo

    tebo Member

    Ace25 really grateful to all the information, I really wish you well with this new project you intend to start, no doubt you will do with your knowledge super good

    Now one last query for now jejejejej

    The amount of led to certain area such as calculate,,,,, and you gave me this calculation of 1:1:1 for aquarium 100 * 60, is set to 700mA and optics, without optics, which wrong?

  8. Ace25

    Ace25 Member Trusted Member

    Tebo: My recommendation was using the assumption that you were going to use some type of optics. Either way, the ratio is still what I would recommend, it's only the number of LEDs that would change if you don't use optics. If you go by the rule that 60 degree optics will add about 3x the output, then you can calculate accordingly. If 24 LEDs on a 23" heatsink with optics is enough to cover a 48" wide tank 14" above the water, then figure at the water level and without optics, you would need around 72 LEDs to get the same penetration power, IF high penetration is needed. If all you have is mushrooms, Kenya trees, and other softies at the bottom, then high penetration power isn't really necessary, and you could get by going with 48 LEDs, no optics, instead of 72. I wish LEDs were more straight forward, they are very confusing when a person is in the 'design phase' of making them, even the first month of use there is a lot of trial and error (you will have the urge to turn it up higher, almost everyone does, but that is not the right thing to do. So please learn from our mistakes and don't go overboard the first month you start using them, it is very easy to do, speaking from experience). MH and T5s were so much easier, but the power bill that goes with them is insane when compared to LEDs.

    Kerry: The second picture looks good, even better if you add another row. Seems like overkill for a 40G breeder as it sits now when comparing it against my 24 LED light. ;) The spacing between rows is about the max I would go, any more and the dreaded 'disco' effect becomes really noticeable. My '60G LED light' used to be a '29G LED light', difference was, on the 29G I had the light on the glass and no optics, on the 60G, I simply added optics, raised the light 14", and the same light without optics that was perfect for a 29G became perfect for a tank 2x the size. My issue with lights at the water level is I am always elbow deep in my tanks, and on my 75G cube, even me being 6'2, I have to get on a step stool and go shoulder deep in the water just to reach anything that falls against the back of the tank, so for me having little 'feeding' type openings isn't an option, but that is a personal preference. One point to make about 420nm LEDs, they are very low output as far as lumens/PAR are concerned, but don't let the low numbers fool you, they are very strong as far as corals are concerned.


    Hung over a 60G with optics added (after I removed the 2:1 RB ratio and went 1:1 RB:CW due to nuking corals @ 2:1):

    24 LEDs is enough to grow SPS corals on the sandbed in a 60G tank. Very bright ;)

    Picture is a little darker due to the camera white balancing the bright white wall behind the tank, but you can see how high the light is hung above the tank.
  9. tebo

    tebo Member

    Ace25 really thank you, and to narrow the information, for example following your calculations to another aquarium that is 300cm x 80cm x 65cm high need 160 LEDs with optics 60,,,, and if you do not put optics, would need about 260 led, my calculation is correct

    I really appreciate the time you take to answer you,,,, in this new project and would like to make it as efficient as possible for sps corals


    PD: indeed beautiful aquariums
  10. Kerry

    Kerry Member Trusted Member Customer

    Those lights look good.
    Thank you for the info!!! I am still on the fence about setting them on the glass but I am leaning that way. I am going to make them come apart quickly with a wiring connector so I can simply pull and remove and I have small pieces of easily removable glass at the front, its only 3" but I am not in the tank much anyhow. Here is the link of the 420nm LED's I have gotten http://www.ebay.com/itm/321349635708?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
    And these are the whites 30,000k http://www.ebay.com/itm/221248116846?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
    20,000k http://www.ebay.com/itm/221248105194?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    On a side note, how long do you recommend burning the blues only, white/blue, and white only (I am not sure you would burn only white??). I figured there had to be some accepted rule of thumb.
  11. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    Interesting stuff ace. Personally I think dumping the reds and greens and going for warmer whites with a higher CRI is the way to go. They dont barrage the 450nm range so hard and they make the oranges and yellows have more depth.

    The recent cheapie light I posted in the cheap ebay thread is 1:1:1 5300k white/420nm violet/450nm royal blue and it looks pretty nice, havent had time to see how it grows coral yet. But I do like this idea of swapping the 450s for 470s, not sure if it is required as much with the red based warmer whites, but still an excellent point to consider.

    My original 55 gallon DIY led light has been modified and is now 14 6500k neutral whites, 10 2700k warm whites, 36 455nm royal blues and 8 420nm violets, all on 700mA drivers. I started with 60 degree optics and now have taken them all off.

    That light is now mounted over a 125 and is STILL overkill. I barely have the light at 50% (if that) and any higher it fries my hammer corals and curls up my mushrooms that are both sitting on the bottom.

    Less is SO often more with LED lighting. Corals take a LONG time to starve to death from insufficient light, but can cook from excessive light in a couple hours.

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