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fit questions

Discussion in 'Pre-Sales Q&A' started by fit, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. My uniseal failed! Operator error. I thought I was being careful and that the uniseal could take the slight movement, but I was so wrong. I was working on re-routing my drain and must have torqued the uniseal too much. Go a small leak that I did not catch. The leak buckled my particle board shelf overnight a little. Took the uniseal out and there is an 1/8" rip in the part that enters the 1.8" hole. All the way from inside to outside. The lesson is, don't torque on the plumbing too much as you run it. And it's really easy to get that wrong.
     
  2. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Ouch! If I recall correctly, you are running yours remotely? I guess that's the only way it could leak like that.

    I think I should go ahead and send you the modified 1" bulkhead and false bottom. I'll get that shipped out ASAP. In the meantime, see if you can rotate the uniseal so that the tear is "up", and see if that keeps the seal, then turn the flow down to minimize contact with the side drain.
     
  3. Great suggestions. The rip was on the extreme bottom of the hole. I used teflon tape around that uniseal. Perhaps 6 turns of the thick teflon. That sure tightened the entire fit of the street elbow. Seems to be holding for now even when I shut down the regular drain completely. I am not sure of the orientation of the rip now. But if the teflon fails I'll redo it with the rip up and minimize the flow. Thank you for sending that bulkhead. I will remove the uniseal and replace it when it comes in.
     
  4. My screen is working consistently now. And my algae in my tank is very much reduced. I am harvesting a decent amount of tough, very dark almost black algae once a week. But performance has tanked for some very obvious operator error issues. Namely photo-period incorrect and flow incorrect. There is still some brown fuzzy long growth in a few places in my DT (I think its algae and I do not think it's bacteria), that I would like to improve upon. The cheato in my sump is still growing well, more than doubling every month. In addition, I am going to increase my bioload in my system and so I want to get this thing working the way it was designed.

    Found out today I was running a photo-period of only 7 hours a day. I thought it was more like 14 hours on. Must have mixed up the on vs off LOL. Anyway I just bumped that to 10 hours a day for now.

    With a growth of 1 week, I measured the flow on my L3 and I am was getting only 125ga per hour through the screen. I was able to bump that up to 200ga per hour with the setup I have now (an Ehiem return from my sump that I split), but then I was getting a lot of bubbles through the loc line and splashing and jets through the slot. I cleaned the screen and my max is 270ga per hour, but there is no way to tune the gate valve to get rid of all the bubbles. I even have water flowing through the overflow drain and I am still getting bubbles through the loc line. I don't mind the bubbles too much as I direct the loc line to the surface. Leaving the flow at this max for now. I see that some people are trying for 400ga per hour on their L2. What is the optimum recommendation on my L3 at this time. I understand I may need to update for the HF (high flow) modifications so that my drain could keep up. What pump can you recommend? If I place that pump in the DT then I have about 18" of head, and if I place it in the sump I have about 4.5 feet of head. The slot I have is not perfectly regular. At the extreme edges of the slot, the gap is 0.13 inches. But at 1.5 inches from the edge this has decreased to 0.10 inches and in the center the gap is only 0.09 inches. Is this nominal?

    I have access to a laser cutter, and I installed a 12V, 1.5" diameter, DC brushless fan into the lid on one side. There is space on the other side for another to fit between the ribs in the lid. It turns on to cool the tank. Not sure of the cooling efficacy yet. The air coming through the overflow drain seems cooler than ambient, and a slight trickle of water through the overflow drain also seems cooler than the tank water. But I am not sure if that's just a little subjective conclusion. A lot of air escapes, short circuits, through the grooves in which the slot pipe rests. I plug those up for now using a towel on each side. The HF mods would take care of this.

    The ripped uniseal does weep a little.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
  5. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I encountered some of these issues myself with the loc-line drain, it seems that loc-line is a little too restrictive. That's why I came up with the new wedge valve drain. I'm working on getting these options presented so I can get a "head count" on who wants these mods.

    As for the slot pipe, remind me - is yours Schedule 80, or is it the electrical (light gray) schedule 40?

    Ideally, you want 35 GPH per inch of width, or 35 x 9 = 315 GPH. This can result in some residual bubbles through the drain, and especially when you get the flow very high. Because of this issue, I have started to include a filter sock for the drain. I was hoping to avoid the need for that, but other solutions were too complex and situation specific. The filter sock is simple, cheap, and effective.

    The HF end cap mods will seal up the box a little better, which will give you better cooling flow through.

    Where is your scrubber located? Is it above the tank?

    Pics would help. I think they might be necessary in your case to make sure the mods will work right for you

    Bud
     
  6. I have my L3 18" above my DT. The drain goes through a true gate valve, through the loc line valve (I keep this wide open), through the actual flexible loc line, through a loc line flare. I don't think it's the loc line with true gate valve that is causing the bubble issue at my maxed out 270 gal.hr. I can get sufficient drainage even at 3/4". However, air is pulled under the false bottom and goes into the DT. The new HF false bottom may solve this. I am not too concerned with it now because I just angle the stream upwards a little and very few bubbles go into the tank. However there is a little sound like a waterfall. Or I may try the filter sock approach.

    The wedge-valve with the greater sized drain piping, from your reports, may be necessary if I increase to the recommended 315 gph. But did you not recently recommend even much higher flow? What about replacing the gate valve with a wedge valve without increasing the drain piping? Is it the gate valve that is too restrictive, or is it the loc-line?

    The slot pipe is the Schedual 40 light grey. It works at 125 gph through 270 gph with nice even flow, but clogs quickly to produce squirts etc. And when the squirts happen, of course flow is restricted and gph is reduced, but also sound level goes up, flow through the extreme edges of the slot increases dramatically and decreases towards the middle of the slot, and a lot more air is thereby driven under the false bottom and into the DT because a lot more water is crashing down on those two entry points in the false bottom..

    Pics to follow.
     
  7. Crumby pics. Have a better camera I can dig up if necessary. Just thought I would share.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Two more to show the angle and position of the flare so I get virtually no bubbles in the DT even though there is air coming through the loc line.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I think the issue is that the gate valve reduces bubbles significantly, but it doesn't completely 100% eliminate them. The waterfall action inevitably results in some turbulence, and the air bubbles get quickly sucked under the false bottom or down the drain. What it comes down to is that there is pretty much no way to rid them completely, unless you put a filter sock over the outlet, or make a chamber to allow the bubble to rise to the surface.

    This becomes very evident when you run the unit above the tank. I have an L2 on top of the tank and when the growth gets good, the bubbles stop coming out of the bottom drain. But right after cleaning, more bubbles.

    Rev 3 mods don't really fix this unfortunately. In your case, the long drop creates a potentially very strong siphon. The gate valve in this case should not restrict the flow to the point of disallowing a higher flow rate through the box, because the higher the vertical drop, the more water you can push through the line when running at full siphon. so your issue becomes balancing flow rate and bubble output. A tiny adjustment to the gate valve will result in more drainage, which lowers the water level in the box, and causes more air to suck under the false bottom.

    The lower false bottom and threaded drain might help a bit with this, because it would allow you to have a higher "pool" of water above the false bottom. There is also a way to allow this "pool" to rise to a higher level in the box by placing a restrictor plate inside the side drain, this might help you as well. I'm still working on that part actually, it's in my head right now. It's one of those "fix one issue, create another" things...
     
  10. Phosphates too high for now. Suggestions if you have any please.

    My ATS is producing a good amount of growth now perhaps 2 or 3 months. The growth is very dark green, almost black in a shadow. I have lately steadily been increasing my photo-period, and am at 20hr/day now. The algae is starting to lighten up a little bit now I think. Nitrates, with the red Sea kit, are completely undetectable, but phosphates are at about 0.36ppm. My cheato is still doing quite well.

    To reduce phosphates, which of the following would you recommend?:
    Wait
    Partial water changes
    Add a skimmer
    brightwell Potassion-P
    Nitrogen addition
    other

    Some other params are: Ca 440, pH a steady 8.2, ammonia an nitrite undetectable, temp between 75 and 82, alk 8.5dkH to perhaps 9.5dkH

    Some of my SPS are starting to show signs of stress or imminent demise. Other things in my tank that have changed recently are: slightly increased flow with a bigger power-head, summer's here so Kalkwasser/vinegar addition in response to evaporation has increased due to fans (one of which is in the lid of my L3) that come on in response to high tank temps, so I think alkalinity has been fluctuating between 8.5 and 9.5, tank temps are fluctuating from 75F to closer to my top limit of 82F instead of my steady winter temp of about 75F. Started adding ReefRoids to feed the tank.

    I am preparing to do a 50% water change in case I have a build up or deficiency in some chemical. I have not done a water change in perhaps 2 years.
     
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Honestly, your situation sounds like you need a temporary quick fix to address the issue with your SPS and climbing phosphates. You definitely need to figure out a long-term solution, but I would recommend adding GFO immediately.

    My preference for this is Premium Aquatics Phos-blast, which is essentially the same thing as ROWAphos, except dirt cheap. Next would be GFH (granular ferric hydroxide) which is BRS High Capacity GFO, or just plain old GFO.

    Do not add a lot, you want to slowly but steadily lower P to a reasonable level and then remove it and monitor. I would use maybe a heaping tablespoon in a fine media bag in your sump, in an area that gets a fair but not strong flow. This will allow it to do it's job but not drop P too fast as this can cause more problems than it solves. Slow changes, always slow changes.

    Then I would test for K and see if that is low. If it is, then start adding K, I prefer Brightwell Potassion-P in bulk because it is safer than any other DIY method as far as I know.

    I would avoid adding nitrate directly

    A small PWC probably would not hurt anything, certainly the old axiom "the solution to pollution is dilution" always applies

    I would not wait

    Skimmer might be good since you have SPS, also does aerate which has possible benefits, doesn't have to be huge or really efficient.

    Temp swings from 75 to 82 are concerning, as at the higher temps the metabolic processes speed up, so if you are having daily or weekly swings like this, I would find a way to get this under control. Consistency on all parameters is really the key for difficult SPS corals, and does really make a difference with all other corals. Fish are pretty adaptable, but temp swings can cause stress to certain species.

    hope that helps
     
  12. Thanks for your help as always Bud.


    What is the largest PWC that makes sense to you? I am close to having enough to make 50% PWC, but I can easily hang on to some of it and do it in a few iterations. I'll make sure to match the water before the PWC. Will the following be acceptable tolerances? SG to within 0.0005kg/l, temp within say 2 degrees, pH within 0.1 units. Do I have to match Alk? Alk right now is 8.5dkH


    I'll get hold of some GFO, tomorrow, as soon as possible. I should be able to reduce that temp swing to say 3 degrees per day without too much hassle.


    Is it possible that the scrubber could somehow create a phosphate concentration increase? I do not know if my phosphates are rising. You seem to think they are. I know 0.35ppm is too high for many SPS. I have never really made accurate measurement of my Phosphates, so they may have been that high forever. I am still learning and making mistakes. My nitrates are undetectable now that I am using the ATS. Before they were low, but not undetectable.
     
  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Percent PWC can be as high as you need it to be, the higher % the more closely matched you want the new water. One local member of our club had a spike due to a blown RO membrane, he didn't catch it for a while and his nitrate went sky-high, he did close to 90%.

    As far as matching parameters, the best thing is to match salinity, pH and temp. I don't ever bother to test pH though - sue me :).

    Temp, I just try to get it close, within a degree if I can, but it depends on the % of change. If I'm doing 20%, and the tank is overly warm (80+), I'll just put it in at 76F. Salinity can vary with temp, but not THAT much.

    Salinity you want within one point, so if your tank SG is 1.025, you want at least 1.024 but not higher than your tank water (if you go by ppt, if tank is 35, you can put in 33-35 water). Organisms can take a quick drop in salinity but not a quick rise, it has to do with equilibrium within their bodies, raise salinity too fast and they will go into osmotic shock (cells literally start to burst). It doesn't happen when you drop salinity, which is why you can dump in whatever amount of RODI you need to top off your tank.

    Alkalinity matching is a losing battle IMO, because each fresh batch of salt might have a little different chemistry depending on what salinity you mix it to (and sometimes, the batch of salt you bought). Higher salinity, higher Alk. I have had batches of IO Reef Crystals that I've mixed to salinity of 34 and the Alk is over 11 dKH, and I've done 50% PWCs into a tank with 9dKH without any adverse effects. Doing a PWC with an Alk difference seems (to me) to not be the same as adding too much Alk supplement directly to the tank water. The difference is that if you add enough BRS Alk to a tank to raise the alk a full point, your pH will really spike, and this is not necessarily the case with a PWC as the ions will mix as you add the fresh saltwater and thing will balance out.

    That's just the way I have experienced it, never had a problem doing a huge PWC, but the larger the PWC, the more matched you want to be, specifically on temp and salinity.

    If you can, mix the salt water for 24 hours before adding. There are certain chemical reactions that occur when you add salt to water that do take time to "settle down". Aeration of the water also helps, i.e. mixing in an open container with a power head moving the water surface, at least for a few hours before the PWC.

    3 degree temp swing is better than 6 :)

    Really, the majority of your phosphate is coming from your food. If your pH is normal (8.0-8.4) it is unlikely that any significant amount is coming from your rocks or sand. I did not mean to imply that your P is rising, but if it's not dropping, then the algal uptake ratio is "off", or you have more P in your food than it being taken out. This is pretty common so don't beat yourself up :) If you just recently started testing P and have no test history data, I would assume it is rising or at least not dropping. Get it down to an acceptable range with GFO and then remove it and monitor it for a few weeks or so.

    Having excess P in relation to N may be causing a different type of growth. Pulling out the P via GFO may get you to the equilibrium stage, where the scrubber takes out all the N and P introduced into the system. This may also encourage the thick green growth, which I am now theorizing is what get once you get N and P under control, instead of what you need to get N and P under control. The thick green growth grows quickly in low nutrients and thus keeps nutrients low.
     
  14. Ok. I have done about 30% total PWC. !7% last night and then another this morning. This morning I stopped the pump, got everything out of my sump (live rock, coral skeletons, and cheato), vacuumed everything out. Then replaced with new mix. About 2 cups of sediment perhaps out of the sump. Water was green/brown dark color.

    Is a 3 degree variation temp from 79 to 82 ok? Or do I just absolutely need to get better with this?
     
  15. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Those temps are a little high by some standards, but not dangerous. Most LFS and many fellow reefers I know keep their tanks at 75-77. That's the range I would shoot for. Putting a fan in the sump/cabinet will do quite a bit, but will increase your topoff needs of course.
     
  16. The main problem was that I had turned my lights very low to help my new Eel acclimate faster. And I forgot that I had done so. I think it was 10 days later that I noticed the effects on my corals. Turned them high and the corals are quickly recovering.

    In reference to that ghost eel, how many cubes are the equivalent of a silverside would you say?
     
  17. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I searched a bit and found one post that suggested 1 silverside = 5 cubes, but spread that out according to how often you feed also. Plus that term was most likely a guesstimate, but at least you have a general idea. How big is a silverside? I'm guessing that you can get them in different sizes?
     
  18. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    That doesn't sound right. Cubes are compacted and have a ton of food. If that's true I'm feeding my tank 11 cubes a day!
     
  19. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Yeah, well, it was a guess by SM and was "due to the oil content" so take that for what you will.
     
  20. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    Oil?..

    I'm confused.. do you think that's accurate and I have to get a huge screen so I can feed my lion one subversive a day?.. of would the skimmer reduce it significantly?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     

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