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Lion-O's Surf2 Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Turbo, Dec 30, 2013.

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  1. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer


    If anyone (who is not banned on algaescrubber.net) wants to PM lion-o and direct him over here, that would be appreciated.

    Something is seriously off when your scrubber grows no harvestable algae in 6 months, you are pulling algae from your display regularly, and the manufacturer says...

    ...and then resorts to the "phosphate leeching" explanation.

    I don't want this to drop into a beat down thread on the Surf2, I just want to help this guy. Because nano tanks are sort of the reason the UAS was invented in the first place, so if they're the only option for some, we gotta find a way to solve these kinds of problems. Something else is going on here and more questions are in order:

    What size air pump is running?

    Has lion-o tried adjusting the photoperiod? He mentions 22 hours, this might be too much (photosaturation)

    Has he tried calling the other lions and forming Voltron? Perhaps the Blazing Sword would help in this situation. Sorry I had to, I used to watch that crappy show religiously when I was a kid. I even kept my original Ban-dai die-cast Voltron for 20 years and sold it recently for a meager $5 profit. That's what I get for playing with it and removing the stickers.
  2. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    He's done really well to give this thing a 6 month trial without any success.
  3. Ace25

    Ace25 Member Trusted Member

    Memories.. I had the same Voltron set, won it as a raffle prize selling coupon books for little league. I even kept mine in the box (I believe it cost like $100 at the time, around '86). About 10 years later I went looking for it (several moves later, thought it was packed away safely in a box), only to learn my mom sold it at a garage sale for like $10. I was so mad. She also sold a collection of comics someone gave me growing up, literally thousands of them, going back as far as the '30's, and she also sold the entire lot (4 good size boxes full) for $5. I know there were several $1000 comics in those boxes. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.. I had no idea at that young ago how much things really would go for 20+ years later. Heck, we would all be millionaires if we could go back and just make a few simple investments at the right time, like in Apple or Microsoft.

    Anyway... sorry that was so off topic, just brought back a lot of memories. lol.. as for as the Surf2 issue, I am of the opinion of 'toss it in the trash'. With the people on this forum, it should be a piece of cake to design a nano scrubber that actually works instead of trying to fix you know whos disasters (which I really don't see it ever working the way it is designed).
  4. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Well I've got one and I can tell you that while I am able to get green to grow in it, it's not as much as I would have expected, and it's not getting thicker or growing faster. Plus when I cleaned it the other day using the reach-in-and-grab method, I almost got a handful of bristleworm. Found either one really big one in there, or about 3 small ones. So yeah, drawback.

    P.S. I would be so mad at my Mom for that.
  5. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Ive been looking at my failure with the copepod scrubber, and perhaps their is a link.It seems FACT that bacterial populations control algae and vice versa given the chance. Not gonna pick bits out of this report because it's all relevant and I would just end up copying and pasting the whole lot.


    Is there a common link between these failing scrubbers and their tanks. Ie. are they bacterially deficient in variation for example, and do they require more mature live rock in the system. Or perhaps they would benefit from being matured in the dark for a few weeks.

    Edit - this seems like a good candidate for the "pod circle" phenomena also
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  6. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    From what I have seen, it does seem that there is a connection between algal growth and diversity, at least to some extent. I scanned this study and it is quite interesting. I will have to read it thoroughly when I have time. Hopefully sometime in the next week
    tedlietz likes this.
  7. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Now SM is telling him to remove his phosban. Will someone *PLEASE* send a PM to Lion-O and point him here?

    He needs to TEST before removing anything. SM is giving him reckless advice here by telling him to remove the phosphate remover without knowing what the test results are before doing so. What test kit is he using for phosphate? His water parameters were "very good" but this is relative, I want a number and a test kit.

    Phosphate removers can slow down scrubbers, yes, but they shouldn't put them into a dead stall for 6 months.

    Reducing flow to the phosban reactor would be better. Total removal is a quick change and is not the thing to do!!
    Ace25 likes this.
  8. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member


    Fk it, I'll post it on the thread. Will probably get me banned but I don't really give a toss.
  9. lion-o

    lion-o New Member

    Hello all :) There are too many forums for this stuff! Turbo, did you stop using reefcentral for some reason? I swear I recognize your avatar...

    Anyway, for clarification, I am 27 years old and own all of voltron and thundercats on dvd. Though there is the obvious thundercat reference, my alias (here , there , and on reefcentral) is actually more a tribute to my favorite fish (lions).

    Onto business :- I'm not pointing fingers at anyone I just want to get my display algae free. :) I've had this tank since 2009 and despite all the progress we've made it always seems to spike in algae during vacations. I was HOPING when I found out about algae scrubbers that this could really help me out... and in doing my research came across the surf which seemed to be a very legitimate product. However as noted I've run it for quite some time and my growth has gone from the original pretty green to the new slimy orange. I've never had a good harvest.

    I'm willing to try anything once so I was thinking I'd proceed with the cleaning and removing media for a week. I can also test my params again but the thing that really annoys me about those test kits is how the color is just always slightly subjectively hard to read. A bit of a pet peeve since high school bio/chem I suppose. Why can't everything just be digital (and affordable) ? :)

    Anywho, I'll try and subscribe to this thread and will do whatever the consensus thinks is best! Let me know if there is any other tank history I can provide.
  10. lion-o

    lion-o New Member

    now watching.
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Well my first question is: what test kit are you using?

    My recommendations are Hanna Checker for Phosphate (either one) and for Nitrate, API is decent and you can use this to tell between the 0-20ppm range, over that it's rather subjective. Salifert is what you want to use to test if it is really zero, or if you want to really know if it's between zero and say 3 (by looking though the side at the color card). Other wise, API looks really bright yellow when it's zero and that's all that matters really.

    API Phosphate will tell you if your phosphate is really high, but for anything in the 0.1 to 0.5 range, good like differentiating. For that matter, anything below 0.25 looks the same, so that's why I recommend Hanna. The ULR (ultra low range) is more accurate from what I hear. But really what we want is something at least relatively accurate that gives us a result that is within a range of error.
  12. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Oh yes, and welcome! Any yeah that's me, I'm still on RC, same avatar.
  13. lion-o

    lion-o New Member

    The kits I have are...

    Marine Lab (by red sea) tests for ... ph, alk, nh3/nh4, no2, no3
    elos po4
    salifert silicate test.

    I also usually bring a water sample with me when i visit the LFS and ask them to test my water, cause its free and easy :)

    So you want me to do a po4 test? anything else?
  14. lion-o

    lion-o New Member

    Just did a quick test and the phosphates report back around 0 (my scale is 0 , .05 , .1 , big #s). The liquid is very clear with barely a hint of blue. So that looks good.

    One thing I was debating was trying a chemi clean treatment, or something like that? The only reason is I had on occasion seen a few spots that looked kind of red in the reef like the red slime i had treated for in the past. Right now its not a concern, but maybe it would help with the slime in the scrubber? Idunno, just throwing it out there.
  15. WannaRace

    WannaRace New Member

    Lion O

    I'm not advocating the use of chemi clean, just letting you know my experience.

    Just before I tore down my scrubber due to lack of algae growth, I dosed the tank with chemi clean because I battled cyano for years without success. It was the reason I started a scrubber in the first place. I had cyano growing on my screen as well. After one dose, the red slime was completely eradicated from the tank, screen included. It didn't harm the small amount of algae I had on the screen at the time. FWIW
  16. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Be careful with Chemi-Clean. I think someone on this forum, maybe @Ace25 posted it, but it basically wipes out a significant portion of your tank ecosystem. IMO, it's a last resort item. But I've never used it. I consider more cyano part of the overall tank cycling process, and there are other ways to attend to it. Unless it's really wiping out your tank, try other ways.
  17. Rumpy Pumpy

    Rumpy Pumpy Member Trusted Member

    As predicted, another one less of them and another one more of you! :D

  18. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Not surprised.
  19. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    What triggered it?
  20. lion-o

    lion-o New Member

    I have used chemi clean twice in the past when red slime was a problem, and it targeted it out nicely. All the other algae remained. Corals/fish unharmed. I'm not saying I'll use it now, but it's something i've got in the back pocket.

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