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My Tank and L3 Algae Scrubber Journey

Discussion in 'Customer Support' started by Redfish, Feb 2, 2013.

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  1. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Looks like your feed hose has a few kinks in it, you might want to put a barb-barb 90 in there and maybe I should have sent you the elbow also for the threaded adapter. If you have a Menards near you, it's a Watts PL-656.

    9 hrs on is where you want to start, and then adjust from there if needed. With your plenum for feeding it, you may have had the flow cranked way up. If your gate valve was 100% open and it was filling up and flushing, that might be why.

    A couple things to try though, just from looking at the pics:

    1) trim the 3/4" pipe below the gate valve such that it terminates about 1/2" to 1" below the surface. Doesn't seem like it would make a difference, but air trapped in the drain can cause the flushing effect

    2) same with the 1" side drain. I would make that one just below the surface.

    I'm guessing that the flushing sound was coming from the side drain, and the bottom drain was running at full siphon. Once the water got high enough in the box to seal up the side drain it would siphon and purge. So that's a lot of flow (probably 600 GPH I'm guessing)

    What you could do is note the plenum valve position, then shut it off, disconnect, and use that setting to fill a jug. Take a 1/2 gallon pitcher and time how long it takes to fill, then divide that time into 1800 and you get your GPH. If it's a gallon container, 3600/time=GPH
     
  2. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    8 days in and the screen has a nice even brown coating over it. I am running 9 hours at night when the main tank display tank lights are off.
     
  3. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Did you remove the fans, or are you using them?
     
  4. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I didn't remove them, but I am not using them either, should they be removed. I figured they weren't hurting anything so I left them on.
     
  5. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

     
  6. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    Will do :)
     
  7. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I have removed the cooling fans :) I have a question, that's why the post. I don't really have a alga problem in my tank as some do in the forum, at least not a big one. My reason for getting the Algae Scrubber for my system was for nutrient export in my tank with the ultimate goal of having a predominately SPS coral tank. I have a Marine Beta in my tank, he is my favorite fish and I really don't want to have to remove him from my system. There is a down side to having this fish, he just won't eat pellet food, Mysis Shrimp is all that he will eat. He is a slow eater, which means I have to feed all Mysis Shrimp to the tank, to ensure that he gets something to eat, even thought the rest of the fish in my tank will eat pellet food. I am feeding two cubes per day, one in the morning and one in the evening. I use a Hanna Checker to test my Phosphate level in the tank regularly, my Phosphate levels stay at around 0.20 I know I have a new Algae Scrubber and am only 12 days into running it on my system, so it is no where close to doing what I want it to be ultimately doing in my system as far as exporting nutrient from my tank. This being said I really don't know what the capabilities of the Algae Scrubber will be on my system in the long term. I know that a 0.20 Phosphate level in my tank is just not low enough to promote good SPS coral growth, would most likely end up killing them. It has been suggested in my local forum, the only way to get the Phosphates levels down in my tank to acceptable levels for SPS corals, is to remove the Marine Beta which would allow me to go to feeding just pellet food. Before I make this radical move and remove my favorite fish in my tank, which I really don't want to do, With all the Algae Scrubber experts here that know what the capabilities of these units are, here's the question :) Will my fully seasoned Algae Scrubber 4 or 5 months from now be able to make a dent in the 0.20 Phosphate level in my tank or should I plan on removing the Beta from my tank. I know asking this question is asking a lot, but ya'll know Algae Scrubbers and their capacities, if ya'll don't know, no one does.
     
  8. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    It definitely should, give it time. If your P has been that high for a long time, you may end up with P in the rocks and sand, which would leech out once P drops in the water. So this may take tome
     
  9. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    Thanks for the reply Bud, puts my mind at ease, my Beta stays :) I will try and get a pic up Sunday on what my screen looks like.
     
  10. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    Here is 21 days of growth, all I have done is brush off the top of the screen where the water comes out onto the screen. I have done this every seventh day, so I have done it twice and will do it again today. Any advice for me? I am running the lights about 9 hours a night.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    are your nutrients relatively high? I think you have a good base, and there is definitely no burning. Increase the photoperiod to 12 or even 15 hours.
     
  12. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I feed two cubs per day and the Phosphates in my tank stay pretty high, even with running a third of a bag of PO4X4 in the reactor, around the 0.20 number on the Hanna Checker, am sure that number would be higher but I do a 30g water change every two weeks so that helps. I haven't checked the Nitrate number :) didn't really want to know what it is, am sure its high also. Bud, should I scrape the screen, or leave it alone and just keep cleaning the top of the screen? If you think I should scrape the screen, how often should I do this?
     
  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Just re-read a few posts...I would scrape the screen, which is not actually what you should have to do. I would think the rubbing it with your fingers would get much of the growth off, then you might just run across it lightly with a toothbrush. Keep doing what you are dong along the top edge, use a stiff bristled brush and scrub all growth off.

    Double-check to make sure you are getting good flow. One of your pics shows the hose it kinked in a couple spots. What I do with all vinyl hose is heat up water in a big pot until it boils, drop the hose in for 30 seconds, then take out with a tongs and connect it. This way the hose will form to the path you want and it will cool off in that shape and will not kink. Your hose looks like it's pretty thin walled also, and is it 3/4" ID hose or did you use something else?
     
  14. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I am fixing to put another hose on the Scrubber, will be alot better, thats my project Sunday. The scrubber screen is getting a good even water flow across the whole screen, am making sure of that.
     
  15. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    The hose in the pics looks like 5/8" ID instead of 3/4", and while that may not seem to make that much of a difference, it really does. That and the kinks will severely limit flow. Dropping the hose in boiling (not hot, boiling) water will make it like a wet noodle and you can shape it exactly as you need it, and when it cools it will retain that shape so it won't kink at all and it won't try to pull the slot pipe in some odd direction.

    I just plumbed a tank with vinyl hose and using this method for return lines that had to snake around a bit and it works very well.
     
  16. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    The hose on the Scrubber right now, the one in the pic, the one with the kink in it is 3/4" ID (inside diameter). I got the hose from Lowe's, they only sell two kinds of hose, Home Depot also only sells the same two kinds of hose. The other hose they sell, Lowe's & Home Depot, is a clear acrylic tubing, it has a fiber webbing molded into the tubing, that's the hose I would rather use, its bendable to a point, it also won't kink, the down side to that hose is, its 3/4" OD (outside Diameter) so the ID on that hose, not sure what it is, but its smaller than 3/4" It needs to be 3/4" ID to fit onto my Manifold system. I have looked everywhere, all the plumbing stores in my town and the next town over, I have looked online, I can't find a hose anywhere that is 3/4" ID that is stronger than what I am using, stronger, meaning, it won't kink like the hose I now have on the reactor. I was thinking of buying the other hose that Lowe's sell's, the one with the fiber molded into it, it is also a very thick hose that's why it won't kink that easy, the one that is 3/4" OD. I was thinking of using a drill bit to waller out the inside of both ends of the hose with a drill bit to try to get it to 3/4" ID. I don't like that idea, don't know if it would restrict the water flow coming into the Scrubber so much that I wouldn't get good water flow over the Scrubber screen. I just can't seem to find a third choice in tubing, take my word on this, I have looked :) The tubing I am using, the one with the kink, the one that I don't like, its bending because the tubing isn't very strong or thick, soaking this tubing in hot water isn't going to help this tubing not kink, its just not strong tubing. Now on the plus side of this tubing, I know it has a kink, I know that kink is restricting some water flow into the scrubber. What I have done is put a bigger pump onto my Manifold system, even with the kink its pushing more water into the Scrubber than the Scrubber can handle. I had to close the control valve that comes off my Manifold that feeds the Scrubber to only 3/4 of the way open. So, although I don't like and can't stand the kink in the hose, the Scrubber is getting enough water flow. Your point about the tork that the kink is putting on the Scrubber screen, and not letting it hang straight, I found that out :) and I have dealt with that issue, take my word on this, the screen is hanging straight inside of the Scrubber. Am I happy with the way the hose looks with that kink in it, naw, not even close, don't like it one bit. Do I think the Scrubber's functionally is being compromised, I don't think so. I am getting a good even flow of water across the length of the Scrubber screen, you can see in the pic, I am getting a pretty even growth pattern on the screen. If I hadn't, have gotten that even growth pattern, I knew my system wasn't going to work the way it is set up now. Don't get me wrong here :) I am not trying to push the idea on you that I am happy with the way my Scrubber is sit up with this tubing issue, or that I am not looking for a better way to do it way to do this. I just can't seem to come up with a better idea, well that's not entirely true. I do have a better idea, that I can go to, if the Scrubber looks to not be working as it should be. What I can do, is to get a feed pump for just the Scrubber, place it under the Scrubber in the sump tank and bring the hose off of the pump straight up into the Scrubber, no way for the hose to kink, if there are no bends in it. I just didn't want to put another pump into the sump tank and add more heat to the water. Bottom line though is, I paid alot for the Scrubber, and want it to work, I will do what ever it takes to make it work, I need it in my system. If it looks like its not going to work the way it is now, I will do whatever it takes to get it set up so that it will work. If at some point I post pics that makes you say,it just isn't working right and you need to deal with this, I will :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  17. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    You can have that problem with local HW stores, even the Lowe's and Home Depots will sometimes not have what you want. Have you tried the small ones? I find that one of the Ace Hardware stores in my area has a very wide selection of vinyl hose.

    On the hose, if you have 3/4" ID it is likely 7/8" OD, meaning the walls are 1/16" thick. The hose I include with the inlet plumbing kit is 1" OD or 1/8" walls. Truthfully, wall thickness doesn't matter much except for the kink issue, and then when you have to bend it around a hard corner it will not let you because it it more rigid.

    The webbed stuff is just rated for higher pressure. It will be even more difficult to bend.

    As for the setup being good as it is - I understand what you're saying but what I'm telling you is that the kinks in your hose are reducing your flow to the point where it most definitely is affecting your scrubber. I absolutely 100% without a doubt guarantee it. You may be getting even flow across the screen but that is not the only factor here.

    As far as the boiling water and hose method - just try it. Take off the hose that you are currently using, put it in a pot of boiling water for 30 seconds, then take it out with a tongs and reconnect it, put zip ties or hose clamps on the ends over the hose barb connections, and just watch what happens. The hose cools and molds to the shape you place it in, and there will be no kinks at all. A kink occurs when you are twisting or bending the hose into a position it is trying to resist. With the hose hot and floppy, that problem goes away.
     
  18. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I will put the hose in some boiling water :) consider it done. Will let you know how it turns out.
     
  19. Redfish

    Redfish Member Customer

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    I took the scrubber apart today gave it a good cleaning, under the false bottom. I put the lip piece on the back of the shelf that the Scrubber sits on, that will keep the shelf from sliding into the sump if something were to happen. I had the front piece done already but had to wait till I cleaned the Scrubber to put the back piece on. Now, about the hose kink :) I know that's what you want to hear about :) Bud lol I heated the hose in some hot water, and it did help, but not enough, hose would still kink, some, the hose just isn't strong enough to take that bend I have in it coming off my Manifold. I still need to come up with a better plan, I put about 7 hose clamps on the hose and tightened them up just enough to keep the kink out. Does it work, yes, does it look like, well you get the idea. I think the answer is going to be, put the Scrubber on a pump by itself and feed the Scrubber thru a 90 fitting into the Scrubber. I also shortened the back up over flow pipe, like you told me to do about two inches. Between getting rid of the kink and shorting that pipe, it has allowed me to increase the water flow into the Scrubber, a lot. Gave the screen a rinse, scrubbed the slot, and got it all back together, and working fine.
     
  20. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Sounds good. You might also try to find a 90 degree elbow that is hose barb on both ends to make a sharp 90, that will eliminate the kink that you can't get rid of. 90's like that will tend to reduce flow/increase head, but since you're running off a manifold, no biggie :)
     

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