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New Tank / Building a Scrubber

Discussion in 'Algae Scrubber DIY' started by BlueMeanie, Jan 28, 2016.

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  1. Im going to test the efficiency of using the two in tandem. I have my own theory that the two together will produce a more efficient system. I have read some of the articles regarding crashes over time. And the anti scrubber folks make some good arguments. However, from my previous experience I find multiple systems of filtration might be beneficial.
     
  2. I'm very interested in your own theory and the anti ats arguments, please explain.
    According to my "research", the cryptic zone would be a complementary filtration method, not the skimmer, and the use of carbon when necessary to corect the water color.

    The main reason, for me, to use ATS, is no skimmer noise anymore. My future sump could accomodate a skimmer, i already have a skimmer (2) from a previous project, that's not the problem, but I prefer, if possible, not to use one. So I'm interested in any info pro and cons skimmer & ats combo. Thanks.
     
  3. The basic theory is that the ATS does not remove anything it just collects nutrients, but will release spores that decompose over time. Those spores apparently decompose and over time can create a crash. When I had my old reef tank, over 20 years ago, I used a wet dry. It was okay but there were many algae issues. Lighting was too expensive and collecting corals w/o metal halides was expensive so it was very difficult to keep corals.
     
  4. The ATS collects nutrients that's why it needs to be scrubbed periodically. So the basic theory doesn't hold water. The "spores" are practically coral food. If a skimmer is introduced in the equation, it needs to be calibrated to eliminate the extra "food"...but if it removes more ..it will sabotage the ATS growth, if I understand it correctly.
     
  5. Those on the con side reference the Aquarium at the Smithsonian that is only using ATS. It has had multiple crashes. However I am not convinced that is the only reason for the crashes, I am looking at a combined approach.
     
  6. Well, as far as I understand, Aquarium at the Smithsonian with ATS had issuel one of the main reasons, they had no idea at that time about "... calcium and alkalinity needed to be added to an enclosed reef tank, in order to replace that which is utilized by the growing calcifying organisms". Also, the new ATS type promotes green algae growth not "turf" brown algae, and it's collected periodically.
     
  7. That's why I said I was cautious in swallowing their argument all together. I have wondered about the protein skimmer and ATS competing w/ each other for nutrients. I may have a naive theory on this, but the way look at it is both systems can work efficiently together if calibrated properly. One will give me a sign the other isn't working. Sort of like when you go to the beach and you see all that sea foam on the shore or if there is copious amounts of seaweed. It's a sign something is changing in the system. If one fails the other will back it up. It might be overkill but my previous experience has been multiple systems working in tandem work better than one system alone. I also want to stay away from dosing chemicals, except for calcium.
     
  8. As long as they are working in tandem... Good luck. I'll be following your progress, as I said, I'm new to ATS as well, i'm very curious how effective it is. I'll post my results as well.
     
  9. This is one of the threads I read. I like to read both sides of an argument. What I found intersting was the person who was so adement about the "dangers" of algae scrubbers admitted they could be beneficial when used w/ other filtration as part of a system and not the sole source.

    Macro Algae vs Skimmers - The Reef Tank
     
  10. Please stay in touch. I really like this forum because everyone seems to be open to learning and helping each other. It took a long time for me to get back to the hobby because the pain of seeing my fish die was too much after a while and it just seemed like a futile effort w/ the technology available at the time. Now I am more confident seeing so much success.
     
  11. You'll might find this thread more interesting. Please keep in mind, this is the admin's tank, the guys has over 30,000 posts. Judge for yourself.
     
  12. Well, it looks like you are already familiar with that thread :)
     
  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    yeah there are some pretty adament anti-scrubber folks over on TRT, but I have read parts of those threads as well and it does give you a good perspective, at least something to keep an eye on and head off at the pass

    I'm a proponent of multiple filtration techniques in general, even though I don't always use them. Scrubber + skimmer seems to be a very good combination, and adding some GAC in small quantities and changing it often seems to be effective as well. I'm a big Purigen fan but it's hard to use, but now I have a few of the Avast Marine Spyglass reactors and I'm anxious to get those up and running with Purigen again.

    I've read much discussion on exudates of algae and I guess I don't know exactly what to believe because what works really well for one person might not for another, and so drawing a conclusion - either way - seem unfounded, and at best, an educated guess (even if it's a very educated guess, without being there and knowing eveything, it's still contains assumptions)

    The fact that Algae Scrubbing has grown from what most considered to be junk science and a fad that will pass into a more mainstream technique is evidence that many of the assumptions that placed the blame on the Algae Scrubber were just convenient, similar to how cholesterol is blamed for hardening arteries when it is just doing it's job (along with calcium) and something else is wrong that is causing the issue. Hence, the Smithsonian example that all the anti-crowd defaults to all he time.

    IMO there is a 'chemical warfare' component to everything and algae is no exception. Neither are things like bacteria (and bacterial based filtration systems) and corals, and some fish. These factors may never be a problem in one tank, but could be an issue in another.
     
  14. [​IMG]20160221_105614[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] [​IMG]20160221_105631[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] [​IMG]20160221_105701 (1)[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] [​IMG]20160221_105722[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] [​IMG]20160221_105737[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] [​IMG]20160221_105752[/url] by Greg Cooper, on Flickr[/IMG] The light portion of the Scrubber is completed. I was pleased w/ the result. Just need to find a way to hang on the outside of the glass. Magnets will hold the internal portion, but I will need to create a system to hold the external. I have cut some different screen configurations. 6x6 and 4x6 versions w/ small and large spacing. Not sure which will work best.
     
  15. Apparently I am unable to figure out how to post pictures. When I get this figured out I will try again.
     
  16. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Paste the BB code, click the Share arrow, then select BB code tab, then copy/paste this code

    Code:
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/DNeZxg][img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1537/24808489249_33fb75be76.jpg[/img]20160221_143312[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/139138779@N05/]Greg Cooper[/url], on Flickr
    But cut out all the junk and make it only this part of the code

    Code:
    [img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1537/24808489249_33fb75be76.jpg[/img]
    All you need is between the IMG tags, and it will display like this

    [​IMG]

    Flickr is one of those places that forces you to paste all the URL crap which I hate.
     
  17. Thanks
     
  18. I Only have a few minor things to do for the scrubber. Connect the air stone to the pump; Attach the magnets to hold the inner portion; and make a hanging bracket to hold the weight of the outer portion.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is an alternate screen configuration. It is a 4x6 size and a smaller mesh

    [​IMG]
     

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