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Temp and algae type/growth?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Joel, Jan 22, 2015.

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  1. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    A few months ago I moved to a new place and upgraded from a 55 with a 40 gallon sump to a 125 with an 80 gallon sump. In the old tank I never needed a heater, the tank was always 76-78 degrees, the new tank was very cold, 70-74 degrees as I messed around with stuff trying to get the temp to tolerable without a heater. A few weeks ago I finally gave up and bought a 300w heater and have kept the tank right around 78 since.

    The funny thing is that my calurpa bed and my L2 algae scrubber have been doing GREAT with this new tank. The calurpa has been going like mad, and the scrubber COMPLETELY fills up every week with spongy algae that is not really hair algae, but seems more like long thin strands of Ulva, but its bright green and works great.

    However a few weeks ago my algae scrubber slowed down to almost nothing, my calurpa is all falling down and looking sad, and my display is growning brown coating algae. Today was the first time I have cleaned out my scrubber in 2 weeks and the algae was very sad looking, mostly brown sludge and very weak. Some of the stringy green stuff was there, but not much.

    At first I had assumed scrubber was slowing down because I dont feed much, just a few small strips of nori a day, and I thought my display might be getting to much sun and growing the brown stuff, but now I am wondering if the heat increase is to blame for the brown stuff out competing the green ribbon algae and the calurpa.

    Anyone run into anything like this before? Ever noticed it having anything to do with heat changes or it happening around the dame time?

    My scrubber flows my entire return pump, which I figure is around 600 GPH, I have left the scrubber and the calurpa lights on 24/7 since I set this tank up in mid October. I have not made any changes besides the heater, and backing off the display lighting once the growth in the display started.
     
  2. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I wonder if yours is a case of photosaturation. You might be on the edge of it, but you still have nutrients available which is why your screen didn't turn white. If you're running 24/7, the super-high flow might be preventing the whiting. Interesting.

    I don't know if temp has anything to do with it but remember that most LFSs (at least that I know of) keep their tanks at 74F so that is not a bad temperature. It also reduces evaporation. It's actually where I have all my tanks set.

    You might have just hit a point in your system where things are balancing out. Moving tanks causes mini and micro cycles that are generally not detectable but are still there, lots of growth and death spurts simultaneously. Also the algae on the rocks is part of this most likely and will phase out.

    If your scrubber is growing slime, then you have too much light for too long. I would back the light cycle down quite a bit and maybe break it up. Maximum of 3x 6hr photoperiods with 2 hours in between is what I would do first. When you clean the screen, just swipe everything off and leave whatever green you have on there. If you have some big clumps of concentrated growth, you can partially scrape those
     
  3. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    The odd thing is I hit photo saturation like my first week the scrubber was on the big tank, the bright green ribbon like algae on my scrubber screen filled the ENTIRE box and I was starting to have water creeping out the top within a week. The algae texture and shape was exactly the same, it was just white where the algae had pressed up against the clear plexi didnt have enough flow.

    This kinda slimy brown algae in the scrubber is the same stuff growing on my rocks and glass in the display tank, so doubt it is anything scrubber specific, like photoperiod or flow. My guess is either something chemical or temp related changed enough to favor the brown algae over the longer green algaes. I did add some more calcium chloride about a month and a half ago or so, but the time period doesnt really line up well and I cant see how it could have a reaction that delayed.
     
  4. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Photosaturation is when you have too much light and the algae is overwhelmed, and literally stops growing. At that point, usually the only growth you get is brown slime that looks and smells like dinoflaggelates
     
  5. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    It wasnt the temp, or if it was it didnt get better when I lowered it again...

    So my scrubber worked GREAT for over a month with new water, then suddenly crashed. Now it isnt working for crap.

    Is it possible I ran out of iron or something?
     
  6. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Iron is almost impossible to keep at measurable levels in a reef tank. I haven't dosed iron in years. Any you dose would go right to the scrubber though so it wouldn't hurt. Kent's Iron & Manganese is what I used to dose now and then.

    Have you tested:

    Nitrate
    Phosphate
    Potassium
    Alk
    Cal
    Mag
    Salinity

    Those are the ones I run every now and then. Just ran the full battery on my personal tanks and I suck at dosing Cal apparently (both low), Alk was in range, N was 0 on one, 2.5 on the other, P was 0.05 on one, 0.07 on the other, Salinity 33 & 32, and Potassium was really low at 330 & 340 but I never dose that either.

    One tank is awesome, sumpless 120g running the L2 Rev 1 with medium load, fed daily and I have been steadily increasing the feeding with no negative effects

    The other, a 40B, is a total disaster running the UAS L2 (which I hadn't fully cleaned in a LONG time) fed every other day (only 2 fish so not much) and the entire tank is covered in red cyano and GHA. This has been my neglected / UAS tester tank for a while now. It just got too bad to look at in recnet months so this weekend I have been running a Magnum 330 canister on it while blowing the rocks, cleaning glass, and now scrubbing the rocks with a toothbrush in the tank. I have removed the diatom cartridge and cleaned it 4 times since I started yesterday afternoon. I have no explanation as to why this tank took such a dive, but I can tell you that once the algae in the tank started taking off, the scrubber stopped producing...and it was definitely producing a lot of growth.

    Clean the scrubber screen off, and in addition to the scraping, take a toothbrush and swipe it across the screen several times. Don't scrub hard in circles or anything, but get the screen a little cleaner than you normally would.

    Are you still running the lights 24/7? If so I would switch to a schedule of 5 on / 1 off continuous (so 5 / 1 / 5 / 1 / 5 / 1 / 5 / 1) which might help break up any photosaturation.
     
  7. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I take that back, I know what probably cause the nose dive in the 40B/UAS tank, I let the Alk spike up to over 20 because I wasn't testing often enough. Tank algae went bonkers, I did a big cleaning and PWC but the scrubber just hasn't produced since then and the tank algae took over.

    So this cleaning I didn't need the PWC, just gave the scrubber a thorough cleaning.

    @Joel you might try this also if you haven't - take the scrubber apart and clean it in the sink, clean the entire inside of the box & drain plumbing. No need to soak in vinegar or anything (unless it's really gross) just take a toothbrush and give it a once over.
     
  8. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    Tank had been setup since the middle of October, about a month after setting it up I realized my calcium had been really low (i used instant ocean, last time I EVER do that) and I used calcium chloride to bring it up around 450 over about 2 weeks.

    The next 3 or so cleanings after I stopped dosing calcium chloride were great, then it took a nosedive right about the time I put a new heater in. Now the scrubber hasnt been working worth crap and algae is starting to take over my tank.

    I dropped it down to a 16 hour cycle just last week. But I can do the 5 on 1 off cycle instead.

    I know the calcium and alk and salinity are fine, I have tested them recently. I can test magnesium I think, but all the other tests I either dont have or are still packed up in a box somewhere.
     
  9. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Stupid question maybe, but have to checked the scrubber LEDs to make sure they are all still firing?
     
  10. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    I know at least some of them are on, and arnt they all in series? I usually if one blows it breaks the chain, but I can certainly check.
     
  11. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Not always, it depends on the way that the LED fails. You can have one bad LED and the rest of the string will still fire
     
  12. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    I dont know if it was lowering the temp or the light, but it is looking better now.

    I never got around to setting a 5/1 cycle, it is still running 16/8

    Short video of how much water my scrubber usually flows:
    [​IMG]

    2 weeks growth, this is what photoinhibition usually looks like for me:
    [​IMG]

    Side view:[​IMG]

    This is one of the main types of algae my scrubber grows:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I used to get those white-spots on my UAS when it got so think that water would not flow there (algae pressed against the window). You may be seeing the same effect. Have I sent you light blockers yet???

    That is a great type of algae growth to have, it looks like it gets thick enough that the growth deflects the flow and that's why you are getting the white spots. I've never had the white spots in front of the red LEDs on waterfall units after 2 weeks so you are just getting a ton of growth that is restricting flow just enough to cause whiting.
     
  14. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    Might have been 2.5 weeks, dont remeber exactly when I cleaned it last. I will check back in 2 weeks and see how it looks.
     
  15. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    Sorry the pics are so blurry, must have had a greasy thumbprint on the lense.

    8 days after the last cleaning:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Standard 18oz plastic cup:
    [​IMG]

    Decided to switch from Royal blue LEDs on one side to violets, I am curious how it works out:

    [​IMG]

    My sump has been lit 24/7 since October, starting to get some calurpa die off, I doubt it is lack of nutrients since the the display is growing quite a bit of algae. I put it on the same timer as the scrubber today, about 16 on 8 off.

    I probably need to stop feeding my sailfin tang so much damn nori, but he gives me that sad look every time I pass the tank....

    [​IMG]

    Oddly enough the algae on the left side of this sump looks fine.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    With refugiums, you need to be very diligent about pruning out dead growth. This might be part of your issue actually, anything that is wilting or sad looking needs to be removed. Not the tang though, just non-feeling plants.

    I read a good article recently about this (I think it was actually posted on this board, it was about FW plants but is still applicable) that basically stated that you must remove all dead and decaying growth.

    Mark Vera spoke at one of our frag fests and said essentially the same thing. In order for a refugia to thrive and be effective, you have to prune multiple times per week, daily if feasible. So I would make a good pass and remove anything that doesn't look like it's growing well. This should result in removing all possible shading issues and should boost the growth of the younger plants.

    The dying/decaying plants are doing nothing but dumping nutrients into the system. And (IIRC) this decay is in the form of ammonia. While a test may not reveal ammonia, that's what could very well be fueling your algae growth in the DT - the decay/ammonia gets pumped into the DT and recirculates and gets used up before it hits the scrubber.

    That's just a gut feeling but it seems like it makes sense
     
  17. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    I could try trimming them, usually what I do is just run my hand through them a few times a week and grab the looser ones to allow light to penetrate better.

    Blue side:
    [​IMG]

    Ebay Violet side:
    [​IMG]

    It occurred to me today that violets should be fine in a scrubber, usually the optics burning happens up near 700mA, since you would split them to 350mA, even cheap ones shouldnt have any issue. I am curious to see how different the sides end up over the next few cleanings.
     
  18. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Have you ever run the scrubber without the diffusers? I have 2 tanks running Rev 1 L2s and I don't use the diffusers. With your flow and growth I think you could remove them. How many hours/day do you run the scrubber lights?
     
  19. Joel

    Joel Member Customer

    77
    11
    Texas
    Nope, I could try it though. I was running 24/7 for the last few months, lately I have been doing a cycle of about 16/8.

    Been acclimating these guys and some MT snails for about a month:
    [​IMG]

    Lets see if they eat any algae =)
     
  20. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    If you remove the diffusers, just pay attention to the growth pattern after a week. Your screen is mature enough so if you are over-lighting it, you will get a layer of dark slime on top of the green, and this is a sign that you need to bump the hours/day back a bit
     

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