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Turkey baster to rocks might be bad

Discussion in 'Basic Principles' started by sabbath, Dec 23, 2012.

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  1. sabbath

    sabbath Member Trusted Member Customer

    I read on another forum that we should not change our flow to much. "Changing flow, or rock positioning, is what kills perphyton." This messes up the pods and the sponges.. Maybe this is why I have a lot of the algae on my rocks.
    I used to hit the rocks with a turkey baster and did not hit one area at the back right. Ironically this area is the one area that did not have algae on the rocks. I started to hit this area a while back and now I'm starting to get algae there as well.

    What are you guy experiences with this? What do you think?
    Thanks
     
  2. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Used to use a turkey baster all the time when first set up. When the little creepy crawleys multiply, you find less and less stuff to blow off the rocks, because they eat it. Not blown off the rocks for minimum 6 years now. I wouldn't stop all at once, wean the tank off it by doing it less and less, gradually, which gives the micro life time to increase its population slowly. Thats what I did anyway.
     
  3. sabbath

    sabbath Member Trusted Member Customer

    Good stuff, Boy I'm going through one of those times where I'm finding how little I knew. Do you run a lot of flow in your system? I'm running 2 Tunze 6095's in a 120g. I wonder if I should add more flow if I don't do the rock blasting anymore.
     
  4. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    About 20 x tank volume for mine, but upto 40 x isn't unheard of for sps especially.
     
  5. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Same thing here, I do not blow off rocks anymore. I moved total tank contents and didn't have nearly as much mulm as I thought I would and this confirmed that it wasn't a concern (not blowing off rocks)
     
  6. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    I like to use the turkey baster.. it blows allot of stuff out.. ive blown directly at sponges and worms and they are just fine.

    This friday Im upgrading to an mp40. I will see if the turkey baster gets less stuff out. If it comes to a point where the baster is not blowing anything out then i will stop it.. but if it does even a little i will continue to use it.

    There is a thread on rc about old tank syndrome and some study found that accumulated "reef snow" clogs the pores of the rock reducing the surface space of bacteria. Using a baster or a powerhead to the rocks can prevent this.
     
  7. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    It also could be that the lack of micro organisms to break down the gunk is the problem also, and that lack of micro organisms is due to lack of food in the food chain, which might be due to over-skimming and the use of filter socks, both of which remove food components.

    Well but then now that I think about it...too much buildup of gunk is the problem, and this would mean there is plenty of 'food' for the micro organisms. Dunno...talking out of my behind here. But I will note that when a scrubber is added and other "stripping" filters are removed, most people notice an explosion of sponges and pods and tube worms/etc.
     
  8. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    My tank has been scrubber only for a year.. got sponges, worms, bristle stars and worms everywhere.. i still have stuff blowing off the rocks.
     
  9. sabbath

    sabbath Member Trusted Member Customer

    It is seeming from the comments that there is a Balance with the detritus on the rocks as well. All good points. I have been skimming very wet ( aggressive ) and running filter socks along with Zeo. Plus I have 2 aggressive wrasse's. I also have about 35x + water turn over in the DT. So my pod population is probably low and this is hurting the system.

    I have removed Zeo and the filter socks and I think that I should back off with the turkey baster for now.

    I'm starting to get a dark brown slime in spots on the rocks. I'm thinking to leave it for a bit and see it it helps shade the algae and just dies off soon.
    What do you think?

    Thanks and Merry Christmas

    Don
     
  10. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    I have seen my sponge population explode since running scrubber only. And interestingly about a month ago i started using a skimmer trying to incorporate garfs theories about skimmers and areation.. my sponges started to get blown off the rocks and die.. My polyp extension diminished and my growth slowed down noticibly on some of my corals.

    I never liked skimmers but now Im 100% convinced i will never run one again.


    Having said that, I still believe the baster is beneficial and keeping the rocks clean provides so much more surface area for bacteria to grow.

    If you have algae in the rocks, It will die off when your tank doesnt need it there anymore.

    My algae took 5months to completely disapear.
     
  11. sabbath

    sabbath Member Trusted Member Customer

    Going Skimmerless?

    Interesting info! Did you notice any other negative affects from running the skimmer. I'm debating what to do with mine. I'm learning toward running for a while to help strip the DT of the algae. But then tossing around the idea of running it part time depending on how things look or react.
     
  12. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    If your rocks are leaching phosphates the skimmer wont stop that, it will only remove food before it turns into nutrients. And if you have a scrubber capable of dealing with these inorganics then you dont need the skimmer.

    The only added benefit woild be areation, which i will accomplish by feeding air into my scrubber pump once i prepare my sump to deal with the bubbles.
     
  13. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    Ricky, I would check your other tank parameters if I were you. Two weeks of skimming shouldnt make your water that deprived of organics with an almost immediate starvation effect. I thought you was gonna set the skimmer just to aerate anyhow.
     
  14. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    It didnt take two weeks garf.. It took an hour and i imediately started to see things reacting to the change. After two weeks my sponges started to blow off when I used the baster.. normaly they dont.

    I check my parameters regularly.. they where perfect. It might have been corals adjusting to the change with less food available.. but either way i didnt like it..

    I love the idea of my corals having plenty of food available.. and no one im my local club can come close to my growth.
     
  15. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    I wonder if the immediate reaction is to O2 / CO2 / pH change. Long term reaction of sponges (2 weeks is enough I think) could be due to lack of food. I don't think it would take long for a skimmer to strip out a good portion of food from the water, at least enough to cause enough starvation to inhibit growth and/or weaken fauna to the point of blowing off.
     
  16. Ricky

    Ricky Member Trusted Member Multiple Units! Customer

    Bingo!
     
  17. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    At least the OP has been answered, don't use a turkey blaster on delicate sponges !
     
  18. Kerry

    Kerry Member Trusted Member Customer

    There is no turkey basters in the wild, just flow. I let mine be there until something in my tank moves it. I would say I have been better off just letting nature do its thing.
     
  19. Garf

    Garf Member Trusted Member

    And did you know that "free food" produced by benthic marine algae (and scrubbers) is composed of a different ratio of sugar types than found in reefs, which can lead to problems in a reef system ?
    http://www.int-res.com/articles/ab_oa/b010p131.pdf
     
  20. Turbo

    Turbo Does not really look like Johnny Carson Staff Member Site Owner Multiple Units! Customer

    Interesting...so the next question is, how does this affect us?
     

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